What Sales Pros Know About Salary Negotiation (That You Don’t)

Lori Cole (00:06):

All right, let’s go ahead and get started. Thank you again for being here today. My name is Lori Cole and I’m a certified career coach and advisor here at iHire. And I want to offer you a warm welcome to this session. What sales pros know about salary negotiation that you don’t. Before we get started, I’d like to point out some features of our webinar platform that put you in the driver’s seat. We’ve already been through those widgets. Those widgets allow you to move and resize windows and explore content related to today’s presentation. Make sure you find that ask a question widget and you can ask a question at any time during the presentation. We will get to as many as we can afterwards and only our producer will see those questions. And lastly, you can keep an eye on your inbox for a recording of this webinar either later today or tomorrow.

(01:11):

With that, I would like to introduce Laura Nada. Laura is the manager of education partnerships here at iHire. She joined during the WorkInSports and iHire merger back in 2021. That seems like forever ago, doesn’t it, Laura? I know. We’ve been here forever. In addition to her work at iHire, Laura is also an adjunct professor at Upper Iowa University where she develops and teaches a master level sports sales class. Welcome, Laura. It’s good to have you.

Laura Nauta (01:46):

Yes, thanks for having me back. I realized we should update my headshot. I don’t look. My hair, I got my bangs. I should have changed it up. I need to get a new one.

Lori Cole (01:55):

For next time we can do that.

Laura Nauta (01:57):

You’ll have to have me back again.

Lori Cole (01:59):

Yes, we definitely will. So let’s kick things off with the pull, get a little pulse of the room. What’s your biggest fear about salary negotiation? The employer saying no, asking for too much money, asking for too little money, not knowing what to say or how to say it, or you’re afraid of damaging the relationship with the employer. So while we are waiting for those results, I’m going to ask Laura if she will kind of walk us through what she’s going to talk about with us today.

Laura Nauta (02:38):

Yeah, absolutely. Happy to do it. So really what we’re going to go through today is quite a few topics. First of all, we’re going to go through the pain funnel, which is actually a sales process and a sales skill that I use quite often, and I know the whole team uses, but you can actually use it in your salary negotiation conversations as well. We’re going to talk about anchoring high and negotiating down so you never go past your threshold, focusing on shared goals between you and the company to make those negotiations even easier. Using silence as a tool, a proper tool to make sure that you’re not spitting too much out and letting them think and you also think. Offering a win-win alternative, if really it comes down to a hard no, making sure you’re still getting what you need from the conversation, leveraging social proof.

(03:26):

So really giving some backing to why you’re asking for what you’re asking for. And then of course, knowing when to throw in the towel and walk away. When to say, “Actually, this is not a good fit for me. It doesn’t align with my goals, knowing when to do that and how to do it. “ So we’ll cover all of that today with you in the short time we have together. Yeah.

Lori Cole (03:44):

We’re so excited. We can have a better person doing this here. All right. Yes, being afraid of employer’s going to say no, asking for too much, not knowing what to say, how to say it. Well, you are in the right place because we could not have a better person doing this webinar for you today. Laura is a pro at sales and a pro at all of this. She’s negotiated salaries before, so she’s going to give us all of her best tips and tricks here.

Laura Nauta (04:14):

Happy to do it. So first thing we’ll go into is the pain funnel. Like I said, this is actually a sales tactic on a skill that I learned since coming into iHire. I did some of it when I was in my previous sales roles, but I really got into the nitty-gritty of why it’s so important when I came here. It is actually a Sandler selling tool. Sandler Selling is quite a unique and really comprehensive sales process, but we’re going to take this part of it called the pain funnel to show how you can use it to dig deeper when you’re getting into those salary conversations. So really the whole point of it is to start asking open-ended questions from the employer to learn about their needs, their goals, what they’re struggling with, their pain points, right? What are pains that they’re having, starting real broad and then drilling down to the nitty-gritty, and then making it so that you’re positioning yourself to solve those problems.

(05:06):

So instead of it just being like, “I need to make more money,” or, “This is how much I need to make to work here. I want this raised because I’m great.” It’s what problem, what pain are you solving? And it’s more conversational. It’s less just coming right out of the gate. It’s more, what are you struggling with right now? What are the biggest challenges your team is facing? Okay, how has it impacted performance and timelines for projects? What are you not delivering on for your clients? What would it mean to you if all of those challenges were resolved really quickly? So you’re getting just farther down the funnel, that’s why we call it the pain funnel, to really uncover their true pain and how then you can plug in that you’ll solve it. So you could have something, for instance, where it’s like, it sounds like improving efficiency is a top priority for you.

(05:54):

With my experience in doing and streamlining workflows, I can help reduce those delays and improve team productivity, which aligns with the value I’m asking for in my compensation. So this is just an example, but you can do it in whatever area you’d like. So in this case, it’s a lot about streamlining workflows, doing productivity training. For me, if it was in sales, I’d say if their biggest problem is hitting revenue goals each month, right? They’re just on the cusp of being profitable or not each month. You can say, “It sounds like increasing revenue is a top priority.” With my experience in driving large revenue change for organizations, I can help make sure that you’re in the green every single month, which aligns directly with why I’m being asked for this. So you can use it for anything that you do. Just make sure that you get all the way down the pain funnel so that it’s really top of mind for them.

(06:52):

It’s at the surface of what their pain really is and how you’ll take that pain away from them. Because then when you ask for the dollar amount, it’ll be nothing compared to what they’re struggling with. How we use it in sales truthfully, the whole goal of going all the way down the pain funnel is to put a monetary amount on the pain. So most of the time we ask at the very end, “Well, what is this costing you by it not being solved?” Because it’s going to be likely an exponential amount. So when you ask for the additional revenue, the additional compensation, if you can solve that problem, it’s going to be a drop in the bucket compared to what that pain is causing them financially right now. So the farther you can get down the funnel, the farther you can get to the surface of the root cause of their pain and how you can solve it, it’s going to be a no-brainer when you ask for more.

And when you say, “This is what I’m worth and why.”

Lori Cole (07:46):

And it’s just helping them see the value before you even ask for that dollar amount.

Laura Nauta (07:53):

Right. Totally right.

Lori Cole (07:59):

All right. I’m waiting for my slides to get some catch up. Here’s something that I want to ask everybody about. When was the last time the people in the audience said a number bigger out loud than they actually expected to get? So when was the last time you said a number that was larger than you actually expected to get? Laura, I know that that is a really terrifying thing to think about doing, but why is that worth it?

Laura Nauta (08:33):

It’s so worth it to go big. Don’t go crazy. I’m not talking like ask for $50,000 more than what their range is that they’ve posted. But ultimately, if you start with a higher price, it establishes your value. I consider myself at this level, but it also gives the opportunity to bring it down. It’s to negotiate it down. Make sure that you put what your range is above what you’re willing to do. Because if you come in at, this is my bare minimum, what I have to make, then the likelihood of you getting it is so much smaller. You have to start high and then make sure that your range of what you are absolutely non-negotiable willing to take is below that. So it’s all about bringing it down, providing that value, showing like, “Hey, this is what I expect and why.” But if you’re going to do it, you got to research.

(09:36):

You got to research salaries for your role, the industry, where you live. Be realistic. I mean, don’t go crazy. You got to be confident and go with your gut of what you think you are valued at and go a little higher, like we said, because they’re going to negotiate it down. And then another thing too, which is really great, and I found this when I was obviously applying to my job with iHire and Work at Sports, there’s a salary tool in our system. So you already have an account with us. You can actually go in right now and look at roles in your location and their salary ranges, what people are averaging. That’s legit data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. It’s very, very legit and it is absolutely a great place to start to be able to research what is expected. And then you could go in with hard facts.

(10:24):

But always do a range, always make sure that the lowest level of the range is your minimum, but go higher. And again, we talked about this, I just had a career coaching session. Don’t make your range too crazy. Keep it between $10,000. If we’re talking, if you’re going to do a 65 to a 95, way too broad, right? You’re giving it way too much opportunity to not get what you want. Keep it in a very easy to adjust range that isn’t too large. Something to consider too is when you’re in a situation where the salary, I think I saw a couple of comments about this too, where the salary is noted in the job description and it gives a range. You need to find out why there’s a range and what they need to give you the highest amount. So you can ask, “Hey, I saw that it’s an $85,000, $95,000 salary.

(11:23):

I had a couple questions about what you would expect from someone at the $95,000 salary and what expectations are of that difference so that I can make sure I align.” Because if you get a clear understanding of why they are putting that and what the differentiators between those two levels is, you very well could hit those parameters. If it’s simply, we’re going to pay you $95,000 more because you have a certification in this, you may have it. So make sure that you have an understanding from them of what that range is and why it’s that way and how you can fit the mold of the 95 or the higher or whatever it might be. So keep that in mind as well.

Lori Cole (12:10):

All right. I’d like the audience to do a little bit of introspection here. Has there ever been a time that something stopped you from saying a higher number in the past? And was it just the fear of rejection or not knowing what was realistic? Drop that in the attendee chat and share with each other because that is really good for us to know so that we can address that maybe in our questions. All right. What if the employer pushes back? Most of us really panic when we hear that they just don’t have the money or the budget to do what we’re asking for. How does a sales pro turn that objection into more of a conversation about partnering with them?

Laura Nauta (13:01):

Yeah, I’m going to preface this. It’s so hard. When you put yourself out there, you say what you want and they just full on pushback. I, from sales, am very used to objection having that, but it’s not comfortable even for me. And I do it every day. I can’t imagine how uncomfortable it is for someone that does not deal. I don’t even like it and it’s what I do for a job. So give yourself some grace. It is not an easy thing to do. Objections and pushback are really, really hard, especially when it comes to talking about money and your compensation. So give yourself some grace, but the best thing that you can do is realigning and shifting the focus back to shared goals. So building trust that way, again, it goes back a little bit to the pain funnel, but the more that you align on why it’s important for you to make a certain amount or why you’re asking makes the blow a lot easier.

(14:05):

So reframing it not as a negotiation, but more as a partnership. Focusing on, I understand that you need to manage costs and my goal is to contribute to the company’s success. With my experience in this or this, I’m positive and competent that I can help achieve this goal.

(14:24):

So you are the problem solver and having the additional money to solve that problem is going to help the company and you’re going to get what you need too. So focusing on that shared goal of like, it’s more of a collaboration, let’s talk through how I can solve these issues. The fact that you don’t have a budget, we don’t have that in the budget. Okay, well, what do you need from me to get it in the budget? So having those conversations, not immediately taking it, it’s just like, “Well, it’s a no, I have to move on and just be okay with it. “ It’s okay to reshift the conversation, make it more of a collaboration, a partnership between you and the company of how you’ll work together to solve problems and reach goals.

Lori Cole (15:15):

It always feels like such a gut punch when the employer will come back if you’ve tried to ask for more money and they say, “No, no, it’s just not in the budget.” As a salesperson, I know you’d want to give up right then and there, but you just can’t do it. Same for being a candidate, right? You’ve got to roll with that punch and figure out what you are going to say when you come back.

Laura Nauta (15:45):

Yeah. And I think everything you should take, I try to do this, take it at face value. Don’t immediately shut down. Don’t immediately be like, “Well, I’m not going to get what I want and I’m done.” We’re going to talk about this a little bit later too, about what you can do instead if they really won’t budge on salary because I even saw someone mentioned in the chat like benefit packages, huge part of it. So I would say it’s uncomfortable, but stand your ground, ask more questions, get more information, collaborate more on why and what, and talk about the future of what this role could look like. Maybe you could get to where you want. So we’ll talk about that a little bit more, but it is uncomfortable. You do want to just shut down and be like, “Well, this conversation’s over.” Don’t let it.

(16:36):

And a lot of the times, the person that you’re asking, depending on what level of the interview process you’re at, they may have to say that. They may have to say, “No, this is the set budget.” But when you get to that final level of the interview and the hiring process and they want you, it’s a lot different of a conversation. So don’t immediately shut down when you hear no that first time. Dig in, find out more, align with the goals of the company and get through the full process before taking it as a hard no.

Lori Cole (17:10):

Yeah, great advice. All right. This is one that we all, most of us are very uncomfortable doing, just using silence as a tool. Everybody wants to talk, they want to fill that space, especially in an interview. You might feel like the employer’s going to judge you if you take a beat to answer those questions, but being on the side of the employer, I really respect that when somebody does take a beat to say, “All right, let me think about what my response will be. “ But Laura, how do we use silence as a tool?

Laura Nauta (17:56):

It is so important, and I’m going to go ahead and raise my hand that I am horrible at this. So I am working on it every day. I work on it personally, professionally. I cannot stand silence. I do not do well in it. It is a sales tool that I should be way better at at this point in the game. We do a lot of tracking and things of calls and stuff, and it’s always my least ... I always score so poorly at this. So I can talk a lot about why it’s important because it is something that I am constantly working at. It is a humongous tool that you should be using.

(18:34):

Silence is so uncomfortable, especially in situations like that. It is uncomfortable for you, but it’s also uncomfortable for them. So if you handle the uncomfortable situation a little bit longer, what will happen is that they will talk more. They will fill the space. So if you put something out there and you pause, it’s called the power of pause in sales as well. One of our other sales managers did a draining on it and I was like, “You’re preaching to the choir here.” But it’s all about being intentional, pausing, letting them have the time to digest it and for you to digest things and information. And then they don’t like the silence either. So they very well might start spewing out information that will help you. I can’t tell you how many times silence has brought out more pain points from a client. Instead of just cutting them off and immediately wanting to go into solutions, I let them talk and talk and talk and talk and talk about their pain.

(19:38):

It’s a much easier conversation. Let it be pause thoughtfully before you respond. A good rule of thumb that I’m still working on is counting to three in my head. One, two, three, talk again. It seems so long to the person that’s doing it. It’s really not. It is super awkward. It’s really hard to do, but once you can master it, the world is your oyster when it comes to having difficult conversations. Trust me. And this is a huge thing too. Take a few days to review offers. So silence is a tool when you’re having the face-to-face conversation, but it’s also a tool when you’re reviewing your offer. Don’t not respond. So when you get the offer, if it’s an official offer letter, things like that, please respond to the employer, letting them know that you received it. But say, “I’m going to take a couple days to review this thoroughly and I will get back to you.

(20:37):

Make sure you take a few days, make sure you really, really dig in on everything that’s in the offer. Take time, ask questions of your peers, of your mentors. Make sure that more people are in your corner when you’re having these discussions and give it time to cook for yourself and for the employer. Don’t wait forever, obviously. Don’t ghost them back. I know we have a lot of ghosting issues across this industry, but take a few days, give it a beat, rest on it, sleep on it. I feel like I’m like my mom. Why don’t you just sleep on it? Take the day, take the night, sleep on it before you just immediately spew out the first thing that comes to your mind because you may not have given it enough thought and the thing that you put out wasn’t thought through enough and it doesn’t come off the way that you wanted it to.

(21:30):

So make sure to wait and think and really take time and use silence as a tool.

Lori Cole (21:36):

And while we’re on the topic of the offers and the offers coming in, don’t ever accept an offer in an interview. You want that offer in writing. Laura and I talked about this a couple of days ago. There are many reasons why you don’t accept the offer in the interview and you wait for that written offer. Laura, I know that you shared, you knew somebody that a lot of things were promised during the interview that it never came to fruition.

Laura Nauta (22:07):

Yes. Get it in writing. This has happened to me on a very personal level, very close to me. We moved for this thing to then for promises in an interview, very basic offer letter that was signed, but a lot of the things that were promised weren’t delivered on because the person left. So the person that made the promises by the time they needed to come to fruition were no longer with the company, and then no one knew. So it’s not their fault. They did not know, and it was kind of an unorthodox offer. So please, please, please make sure that it is in writing before you sign it. Everything needs to be in writing. And it is 100% okay to ask for clarification and to make sure things are right. Get other people to check it out, make sure it aligns, it makes sense. But one thing to note, and this was really good feedback Lori gave when we were talking through this presentation, is don’t go back and forth multiple times.

(23:09):

Take the time, read the whole thing, put together a list of your questions for the whole thing or a list of back and forth, whatever needs to be addressed, and reply back with that in one email. Do not, “Oh, what about this? “ Or, “What about that? “ It comes across a little greedy, a little nitpicking, take the time, find all the things that you need, then send it back and ask for clarification.

Lori Cole (23:38):

Yeah, because you can’t just keep going back to the well. You can’t get them to agree to one thing and then say, “Oh, well, they agreed to that. Now I want them to agree to this. “ I mean, the employer gets tired of that after the second or third time and says, “Listen, maybe this is not going to be the right fit.” I know of a situation where that did happen and the candidate just couldn’t believe it, couldn’t believe that they lost that offer because they kept going back. But yeah, it’s a tough thing. Go back the one time. All right. So sometimes the employers will say, “Nope, that’s it. That’s all the salary we can do. “ And they really are up against the wall. They really can’t do anything more on salary, but there’s other things on the table to ask for. So what are some of the other things that we might be able to negotiate outside of the salary piece?

Laura Nauta (24:45):

Yeah. And this, I think I hinted at this a little bit earlier because someone mentioned benefit packages, things like that. We talked about what happens if you get a hard no. It’s okay if you really want to be there. You like the company, you like what they stand for, their values align, your goals align. There are other ways that you can align to create a win-win situation if the money just can’t hit what you want. So you have to create kind of a bundle with an additional value to close the deal, but it needs to be based on what you value. So don’t just throw things out there to see what sticks. It needs to be things that are really important to you. If it’s just, “Hey, can you do a signing bonus? Can I get money put into a development plan for me? I really want to grow in my career.” Or it’s simply flexible like work arrangements or time off or whatever it might be.

(25:37):

I have a mentee of mine that was in the process of changing jobs, got her offer letter. It’s with the startup. It’s very, very new. And I said, “Listen, they’re not going to have a lot of leeway when it comes to salary. They simply do not have it. You’re joining and taking the risk of going to a startup.” But because they are not a major corporation, they have a lot of other things that they can have leeway on, like PTO, professional development, flexible work arrangements. And she knew, because her last job, she had no PTO. She knew PTO was really important to her and she knew that she likes to work from anywhere. She does not want to be stuck to a desk at an office five days a week. It’s just not her personality. So those were two things that she went back and negotiated because she knew that it was a hard no for salary.

(26:27):

You can do that, but make sure it’s things that you really, truly value. Because if you’re just going to throw stuff out that you’re not going to use, then what’s the point of asking for it? Don’t just do it to do it. Make sure it aligns and make sure that it helps. You don’t want to have resentment later on of like, “Oh, I shouldn’t have taken the job because of the money.” If you’re going to ask and they’re going to give it to you, then you need to be happy with the outcome. And it also shows that you’re flexible and you’re adaptable. So you could say, “Hey, I really need to make this amount for it to be worth it.” And they can’t do it, but you’re willing to do other things. It shows that you think the company’s values align, you want to work there, you’re competent in your abilities, but you’re also not a doormat.You’re going to change and adapt and get what you need to be happy and successful and ultimately perform better for the company because at the end of the day, if you don’t feel like you’re being compensated properly, you’re not going to give it your all.

(27:26):

Make sure you’re getting what you need to be the best form of you for the company and get that right out of the gate. Another thing to mention that isn’t listed in here, and it’s something you can do. Again, you have to be very confident in your ability here. You can ask for more, and if they won’t give it to you, you can say, “Well, I need it to start, and if I’m not meeting your expectations, we can rediscuss it in six months.” If you are very confident that you’re going to deliver on what you’ve promised, you’ve shared goals alignment, you know that you can do what they need to get the company, fill that pain, right?

(28:12):

You got to put your money where your mouth is, right? You can do it. You have to be very competent. And if you are going to do it, you need to make sure it is very clear and in writing what those expectations are because you don’t want to go six months down the road and they’re like, “Remember when you said that you take less money, but we didn’t talk about what we needed from you? “ Well, make sure it’s clear in this six months, if you do not hit this, this, this, and this, we have to negotiate and rebase your salary. So make sure you’re competent, make sure it’s clear, but you can do that as well, create that win-win or opposite, “Hey, I’m going to take the lesser money now, but I need to know what’s coming in the future for me and what other options there are.

(28:56):

Staying loyal to a company can have its benefits in the long run if they have clear plans in place of promotions and adjustments and bonuses and all of that stuff, it’s worth it sometimes to start lower, but you need to know what that is.

Lori Cole (29:14):

I really like the idea of saying, “Let’s map this out of what this looks like over the next six months and what you expect from me, “ because that would really give you some insight into that employer’s mindset. Are they coming back with things that are actually realistic for you, goals that are realistic to meet instead of just these goals that are really out there and you may never be able to make them happy no matter what. So that would be good to know on the front end instead of six months after you’ve been there.

Laura Nauta (29:53):

Absolutely.

Lori Cole (29:55):

All right. I think the moral of that story is pick the The benefit that’s going to make the most sense to you right now and ask for that one if it’s outside of salary. All right, this is about leveraging our data and our social proof. So your resume basically lists what you did, but your interview and negotiation is where you explain what that was worth. So Laura, how do salespeople back up their asks with social proof or with proof?

Laura Nauta (30:34):

Data and painting the picture. So you paint the picture with data and true stories and examples. So your resume just lists everything that you did. When you’re in that face-to-face conversation, you’re talking about the impact that those things had on the company. So for sales, I mean it’s dollars and cents. What revenue did I drive? How did I impact the goals? But you can use it for any line of business because every single company has metrics, has data, has analytics about all things. So every company has KPIs for all roles. Sales roles, KPIs and KPIs are key performance indicators. How are you doing in your job? So in sales, the KPIs are pretty easy. Did you make your calls? Did you hit your numbers? Did you sell some stuff? But for others, it doesn’t seem that easy, but they’re there. There are KPIs for every role.

(31:29):

Are you hitting your goals and doing what you need? That’s what you talk about. And that’s what drives your ability to say, Hey, I’m worth it because I can do this and I have done it and here’s how, and here’s by how much. So giving examples with quantifiable data paints the picture for the employer and makes it a lot easier when you ask for additional money. Because if you let a project that increase revenue by 15%, but what you’re asking for is only 5% more of a salary, it’s a no-brainer. So keep that stuff in mind and you’re worth it. Being confident, there’s a fine line between confident and cocky. Make sure you can back yourself up. So that’s why you have to have the examples in the data. You can’t just say, I’m the best project manager that’s ever lived. Why are you the best project manager that ever lived?

(32:20):

Okay. So you got to back it up with some info and some stories, but you are an asset, worth the investment. You are worth it. And the more that you can prove to them that you know you’re worth it, your loved ones know you’re worth it. Make sure that they know why you’re worth it. So leveraging that data and social proof is huge.

Lori Cole (32:42):

And you said there’s a fine line between confidence and bragging. So I think that if you’re confident, you’re kind of talking about your results, you’re letting those results speak for themselves, you’re showing them the data. And if you’re braggy, it’s that you can’t stop talking about yourself. You just can’t help it and you have to be bragging about yourself all the time. And I know that someone pops into my head. I get a picture of somebody that I know that is a true bragger, but you probably all got a picture of somebody in your head too, that it’s just like, oh yeah, that guy. Don’t be that guy. Be the person that just lets the results and the data speak for itself and you’re able to talk about it confidently.

Laura Nauta (33:39):

Absolutely.

Lori Cole (33:41):

All right. Here’s another good life lesson, not just in jobs, but in life in general, you got to know when to walk away. You have to understand what that looks like and have the courage to do it. Laura, in sales, how do the salespeople do this?

Laura Nauta (34:02):

It’s hard to do it, but we know when to call it.

(34:08):

And sales, these people are my, I call them my energy vampires. They’re my people that dangle the carrot and they always answer the phone. They’re always excited to hear from me. They always think that we’ll work together and they’re just waiting. But they had no intention of ever buying anything from me. There was never any leeway. They just couldn’t do it. They couldn’t let me go and I couldn’t let them go. You need to know when to walk away. Before negotiating, before even going into the conversation, you need to know what your hard stop is, what your non-negotiable deal breakers are and the absolute minimum you will accept. And if it ever gets to that point, you can absolutely decline. And that’s okay. The employer will respect you more for declining and not wasting their time going through the entire process when you would’ve never taken it.

(35:00):

They would appreciate it more if you say, “Listen, this just does not align with my goals and needs at this time. I do not think this is a good fit. I appreciate everything that you did to take the time to talk this through with me. And I respect your time, which is why I’m going to tell you that it is not a good fit and I have to decline. I have to move on. “ Maintaining confidence, it shows them respect of you’re confident in yourself, but you’re also respectful of their time and their efforts. So it’s okay to decline and walk away. It’s really hard. I have had trouble with it. I mean, it’s also hard in your personal life to ever walk away from something when you’re just not getting what you need. And I will say, this is the tactic that we use in sales and you can absolutely use it in these types of conversations, salary negotiations as well.

(35:53):

You can use it as a tool, but you have to be able to back yourself up. So you can give yourself the out. So if you are in the final stages, you’re having the conversations and you’re like, “Listen, they’re not getting to where I want and I think I’m just going to decline with the hope that they’ll come back and be like, oh, wait, wait, wait.” That happens. There are times where you go into the conversation and you say, “Listen, I know we’ve had a lot of conversations about this and I just don’t think that we’re going to get to a mutual agreement and I really appreciate the offer, but I don’t think it aligns.” There are going to be times where if you’ve gotten to this stage where you’ve gotten the offer letter, they want you. They wouldn’t have done the work. They wouldn’t have put the offer out if they did not want you.

(36:39):

There’s a reason they want you. The minute you take yourself out of their opportunity, they very well could go back and be like, “Well, wait, wait, wait, wait. Maybe we can, or maybe we can talk this through or what do you need, but you have to be willing to walk.” So you don’t use that unless you’re willing to walk. But there are times when, when you try to walk away, they pull you back in, but don’t let them dangle the carrot. Make sure it’s in writing, make sure it’s legit and make sure it’s what you need, and it’s okay to walk away. Don’t waste so much time trying to make something work because you never know the next company that you have an interview with could give you everything that you wanted, but you would’ve never gotten there if you hadn’t said no to the one that you just really couldn’t let go of.

(37:29):

So it’s okay to walk away.

Lori Cole (37:32):

We all have those forks in the road that you can look back on now and say, “Oh, it’s a really good thing that I didn’t do that because here’s where I ended up and this is so much better than that would’ve

Laura Nauta (37:46):

Been.” Totally.

Lori Cole (37:48):

All right. Let’s go to our recap slide and then we ... Laura, you talk through all the recap stuff and I will get our questions up here.

Laura Nauta (37:59):

Wonderful. Yeah. So just to recap before we go into Q&A, what we covered today was really making sure to get down that pain funnel, right? Asking thoughtful questions to uncover the pain of the employer, and then use that to your advantage to make sure that you’re a win for that company. They have to have you because you’re going to solve all their problems. Start negotiations super high so that you can have wiggle room, but make sure it’s not crazy. Start it at your highest amount so that you can bring it back down to your, I must have this amount. Focus on shared goals between you and the employer, especially if you’re having some pushback, make sure to realign, have it be a partnership, a collaboration. Don’t be afraid of silence, power of pause, giving them time to think, giving yourself time to think. Active listening is a huge tool.

(38:45):

In salary negotiation, being flexible and offering other alternatives, that bundled package idea that we talked about, right? And then using data and social proof to your advantage to back up your claims. Your resume writes everything down. In an interview when you’re talking about salary negotiation, that’s when you get to back it up with real data and real stories so that it’s a no-brainer when the conversation comes about asking for more money. And sadly, this happens to all of us, but knowing when to decline and move on. We just chatted about it. It’s okay to move on and say, “You know what? This isn’t a good fit.”

Lori Cole (39:23):

Perfect. All right. Question one. Is it ever a mistake to negotiate or should you always try regardless of the offer?

Laura Nauta (39:35):

That’s a good question. You don’t always have to. If they’re offering you everything that you want and need, take it. Take the offer. Don’t just come up with something because you want to seem like you want to have a response. It’s okay. If you’ve gone through it, the offer is real, it hits all of your markers. Another person has gone through it with you. You feel very confident. It’s okay to accept it. I will say it’s also industry by industry. So sales, it’s very common, no matter what, to negotiate salary because they want ... It’s kind of a little mini test to make sure that you are in the right role, you’re willing to hunt for more. It’s very known in the sales industry to negotiate salary, because we have to be able to have those difficult conversations. We have to be uncomfortable. We have to be able to talk about dollars and cents.

(40:36):

It’s a little bit of a difference for that industry, but in other industries, if you’re getting what you want, it’s not a test. Take it. Take it. Sign on the dotted line. Why would you make it more difficult and uncomfortable for yourself and for them? But if there is anything that is off or seems wrong or I don’t really like this, you better call it out then. You better negotiate it right then and there. Do not take the job and present them later.

Lori Cole (41:03):

Yeah. And something for people to keep in mind, 70% of employers do expect you to negotiate your offer, but only 30% of people actually do that. So that’s a big gap there of people that are not willing to do that. I think it just makes you look good if you’re coming back, you’re doing it in a professional way, you’re organized about it, you’re confident about it. I think that it really adds to your value as a candidate to negotiate if you’re doing it the right way.

Laura Nauta (41:44):

And it shows that you care. You took the time to look at it, evaluate it, decide what was your no-brainers. Your hard stops. Sticking up for yourself and your confidence. It’s hard to do it, but they will respect you for it.

Lori Cole (42:05):

How do you balance being assertive without coming across as difficult or high maintenance?

Laura Nauta (42:14):

We talked about this a little bit. If you’re going to make changes or ask for things, you get one time. So once you put it out there, that’s why you should take your time, review the offer. It should not be a constant back and forth. They don’t have time. You really probably don’t have time. You need to get a job. So don’t make it too much of a back and forth. Don’t ask for crazy unorthodox things. Make sure they’re actually attainable items that you need. And you can be assertive without being pushy and you can be assertive without being too persistent. But you do need to be a little persistent and you need to stick to your guns. This is what I need. And using correct language. Don’t make it too nonchalant. It would be nice if it’s like, what are your policies on this?

(43:10):

This is important to me. I did not see this in the offer. I would like to see it. So making sure that you’re being clear without being rude.

Lori Cole (43:21):

Right. And we want to be clear about if you’re in an active negotiation, it’s okay to go back and forth with the employer and have those discussions. What we’re saying is that you go to the well with your asks once, and then you start to have the discussion about what you’re asking for. So it’s okay to go back and forth. Yes. With the employer on that part, it’s just that you don’t want to go back and keep dinging them for more.

Laura Nauta (43:54):

Yes. You can

Lori Cole (43:55):

Absolutely,

Laura Nauta (43:55):

Once it’s all out on the table, there will be back and forth, for sure. But you can’t have the whole conversation and then all of a sudden be like, “You know what? I also was wondering about PTO. Can I get more PTO?” And it’s like, we just had 15 emails about getting your salary up. You’ve got to make sure that you put all your eggs out in one thing, put it all out on the table and then do the back and forth, but don’t come in later with some random left field like, “Actually, this is important to me too.” It’s like, “Really? Make sure it’s real.”

Lori Cole (44:29):

When is the best way to respond if a recruiter says that the salary is non-negotiable?

Laura Nauta (44:39):

This goes back to what I mentioned earlier about they have to say that. A recruiter, they’re not the hiring manager. They likely do not have the budget in front of them. They might. I’m not saying this is everyone, but if they say the salary is non-negotiable, it also goes into the fact of, well, there’s probably other things that you could, like that bundle idea. Also, wait until you get in front of the person that’s actually having that salary come out of their budget because as managers, as hiring managers, we have a budget of what we can spend on employees. When you’re in front of that person, that’s a completely different conversation. So make sure you’re hearing it from the right person. And a lot of the times recruiters say that because they truthfully cannot negotiate salary with you. That is not part of what their job is.

(45:33):

And they also don’t want someone coming in and thinking that they can just ask for whatever. I’m going to put no, you can just ... Salary is up for conversation. No one’s going to say that. No one’s going to come out and be like, “Salary’s up for interpretation. We’ll talk through what you think you’re worth.” That’s not a thing. They come in with an idea. So it’s okay if you’re okay with being a little adaptive and waiting until you get in front of the hiring manager.

Lori Cole (46:02):

How do you negotiate a higher salary when you don’t have a degree, but you have the years of experience? I’m going to say this is where ChatGPT or one of the large language models, AI could be your best friend here, to be able to just put that offer into ChatGPT and just say, “This is my resume. This is the offer. How do I convince this employer that I am worth what they’re asking for, even though I don’t have the degree?”

Laura Nauta (46:41):

Well, and I will say it all goes back to that social proof and quantifiable data. If you’ve been working in that field for that long, you have the background, right? So use that. Just because you don’t have the degree doesn’t mean you don’t have the expertise. So make sure that you are very clear about the expertise that you bring to the table with true data and true understanding and true success stories. It goes back to, like we said, the more you can put data behind it, it’s a lot easier of a conversation.

Lori Cole (47:16):

Yes, absolutely. What is your opinion on incentives as part of the negotiation, like getting bonuses or profit sharing, those types of things?

Laura Nauta (47:29):

I think they’re wonderful. I’m all in on them. I have a good story. My sister, she’s in accounting and she has been with the same company her entire career and has moved up in the same company because she may not be being paid base salary as one of the larger accounting firms that are like the big four. Every single year she gets a bonus. She has been promoted eight times. It’s wild. Make sure it’s the right company, make sure they follow through, but it can be just, if anything, more rewarding because it’s based on your goal attainment and how the company is doing. And it makes you ... I know that there’s certain companies where you can buy into stock and that’s stock options as part of your benefits. It’s a benefit of my sister’s company. Then it makes you part of the company too.

(48:21):

They do that on purpose so that you feel a tie to the company more than just being an employee. I think it’s a wonderful, wonderful perk, and I think it’s just as impactful as a salary bump. And sometimes it’s easier to get approved. Sometimes those are easier approvals than just saying, “Hey, I need you to commit to doing this. “ If you have a goal in mind that you’re like, “If I do this, then can I get this? “ Much easier because it’s based on merit.

Lori Cole (48:55):

All right. This is going to be our last question. So generally, how helpful is it or isn’t it to tell a prospective employer that you have other offers on the table, whether you actually have them or not?

Laura Nauta (49:16):

This all goes back to if you’re willing to walk. So if you’re going to say, “I have other offers on the table and you do not, “ and they say, “Well, you should go with those.” Well, then you’re done.

Lori Cole (49:32):

It’s a dangerous game.

Laura Nauta (49:33):

It’s a very dangerous game. I wouldn’t do it.

Lori Cole (49:37):

I wouldn’t either.

Laura Nauta (49:38):

I do not recommend it. Well, because first of all, then if you do get that job, then you’re starting off with a lie, which I don’t think is a good place to be. If you do truthfully have offers, I do think that you can use that to your advantage. So if you do truly have other offers on the table, you can make them aware of that. Especially once you get the offer and you need time, or you need to know sooner. If you’re in the process and you’re like, “Listen, I know you said that it’s going to be a couple weeks, but I need to know a timeline because I am in active offer stages with other companies.” Yes. Okay. But

Lori Cole (50:24):

Don’t mention the companies, don’t mention what that offer is, don’t mention how it’s stacking up and always say, “Your offer is the one that I’m most excited about, “ if that’s true, and then help them to understand what your timeline is so that you can get back to those other companies. But gosh, I don’t think I would do it unless I did have those other offers actually on the table.

Laura Nauta (50:58):

I do not recommend it. I’ve known people to do it and it backfires. So I would not do it.

Lori Cole (51:03):

Yeah.

Laura Nauta (51:04):

Honesty is always, we’ve talked about this in other sessions about certain things when people are like, “Well, what if there’s something I really don’t want to talk about, but they’re going to find out? “ I’m like, “Honesty is always the best policy. If you have been out of work for a year, they’re going to see it on your resume that you haven’t had work in a year. Just get it out there on the table.” The same goes with this. Honesty is always the best policy. Transparency, they will respect you for it and you will get farther being transparent.

Lori Cole (51:29):

Yeah. And again, that shows you the type of the candidate that you are, that you can be juggling these multiple offers and making good decisions and having good negotiations. And not taking the

Laura Nauta (51:41):

Decisions lightly. It’s a big decision. Yeah. Yeah.

Lori Cole (51:44):

All right. That’s all the time we have left for today. We really appreciate everyone that stuck around, listened to all of the questions, submitted your questions, and took the time out of your busy day. Another huge thank you to Laura. I told you she’s just a pro at this. She’s the best one that we could have had to talk to you about this today. Thank you again, Laura. Thanks for having me. Make sure you keep an eye on your inbox for an on- demand recording of this webinar. You’re going to get the whole thing, as well as an invitation to our next webinar in a few weeks. I hope you all have a great rest of your day. Thank you for the emojis right back at you. Hearts and clapping hands. Thank you.